Swedish/Norwegian Jäger rifle?

[Fabian23]

I have come across this rifle which the owner is unable to identify.



It is flintlock and has a dog safety, the sights are very similar to the
kammerlader with the rear sight having 3 sight slots with v-notches, and the foresight being a brass blade dovetailed into a large square base.  

Barrel has 5 groove rifling.  Ramrod is quite heavy with a brass band around the head.  It shows no markings other than numbers (stock and barrel match).  No provision for a bayonet.

It definately smacks of Scandinavia to be, I had a similar ramrod on a Swedish navy M1855 minié rifle, and I know the dog safety was used into the percussion era.  The brass pan is strange since that is more of a french design.

Any ideas?

[Krag]

It could be Swedish I guess. Do you have more pictures that show the rifle from the side?

[Fabian23]

You can see more here

[Fabian23]

The closest I come to is some sort of shortened Norwegian M1774/1841/1851 Pillar breech rifle not converted to percussion.

[jæger justnæs]

The problem is that the "41" in the sequence is the year of converting from flintlock to percussion...

Maybe another lock has been altered to fit and hence reconvert the rifle to flintlock? The barrel seems to have undergone a recent shortening; the muzzle looks more "crisp and sharp" than one expects to find on them.

[Fabian23]

Yep, the muzzle looks definately sawn off.  It looks more like this is a fantasy creation, even if well done.

[tommy303]

The ramrod does look suspiciously like one for a pillar breech rifle

[Trond]

> The closest I come to is some sort of shortened Norwegian M1774/1841/1851
> Pillar breech rifle not converted to percussion.

Well, for starters. Norway did use a brass flash pan - on the Kongsberg M1821 jäger rifle. And I really doubt the barrel of this rifle has been shortened by the jackass who ruined a perfectly good and rather scarce Norwegian rifle.

It is slightly embarrassing that it took a Dutchman to point out to us Norwegians what Norwegian gun this (almost) is - and I'm impressed!

So, what it really is? With the exception of the lock, this is a M1774/1841/60 tappstusser. Most of these are black, but the M1774's produced after about 1788 were kept brown. I only have a black one in my collection:



The lock - I am pretty certain that the lock plate is a M1774/1841 lock plate (the dog catch and the stopper for it came with this conversion) and it probably belongs to the rest of this mess. The hammer, flash pan etc. are just - well - anything from anywhere.

I would give a fairly educated guess that there is a pretty large plug in the barrel after it was "de-percussionized".

Value - as an original M1774/1841/60 - it is somewhat tatty, there is no original finish, but this is a model you don't see very often - NOK 10 000 (+). As it stands today - next to nothing. One would have to butcher a M1774/1841 to get it back to resembling the original (if at all possible) and even a cut down and ruined M1774/1841 would cost some NOK 3-4 000. Conclusion: Grrrrrr!!!!

Trond

[Fabian23]

Trond, I'm only a pseudo Dutchman :-P I'm actually a confused mess of Frenchman and Englishman.

I only came to my conclusion because I have gone through your excellent site on Norwegian firearms many many times :-).  As for restoration in general, are you aware that the Rifleshoppe in the US make some parts for the proper pillar breech rifle?

[Trond]

Well, you are still a "bloody foreigner" knowing more than us Norwegians about our cultural heritage - and that is rather embarrassing! But thank you for your kind words.

No, I was not aware of the Rifleshop, do you have their web-address? Are they the ones that have put the Danish M1803 jäger rifle back in production?

Trond

[Fabian23]

> Well, you are still a "bloody foreigner" knowing more than us Norwegians
> about our cultural heritage -

Naa, I just know a little about lots of things....:-D

 
> No, I was not aware of the Rifleshop, do you have their web-address? Are
> they the ones that have put the Danish M1803 jäger rifle back in
> production?

One and the same, see

The Rifle Shoppe.  I have their huge paper catalogue, which has black and white photos of all the original firearms they make their casting moulds from for all the parts.  A nice reference book.  They do work very very slowly though if you actually order anything unfortunately.

[vintovka]

Not sure I'm posting correctly but I've seen rifle just like that here in us not that long ago.  My guess is it was altered to increase it's value. Several unaltered Nowegian muskets were here sold a few years ago and no one knew what they were. They came from a hollywood prop house sale and were very cheap so buyers felt free to alter them.